teacher seeks mail svr 4 edu site. should we dump mailenable

Discussion regarding the Standard version.
kckclass3

teacher seeks mail svr 4 edu site. should we dump mailenable

Post by kckclass3 » Mon Jan 26, 2004 4:56 am

we need to get our site and email up but it looks like this is a pretty thin support group and we need some help getting mx records straight (we thought they were fine but I mailenable spits an error message) and we don't want to waste time if nobody is in these forums. anyone out there want to help a group of teachers get this thing working or should we use james or some apache compatible mail program?

kckclass
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2004 3:48 am
Location: San Francisco

hey pop seems to be working now but SMTP is having problems?

Post by kckclass » Mon Jan 26, 2004 8:45 am

I was able to set up Outlook Express and it popped the mailenable account... Then I tried using OE to send a message to yahoo and it sent me a message that says

Received: from ([127.0.0.1]) with MailEnable ESMTP; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 00:00:49 -0800
Message-ID: <B3A879C95B4544638DED9E47258326.MAI@mail.bigdrivehosting.com>
From: <POSTMASTER@bigdrivehosting.com>
To: <info@bigdrivehosting.com>
Subject: Message Delivery Delay
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 00:00:48 -0800
Precedence: bulk


MailEnable: Message delivery has been delayed.

Message is waiting at mail.bigdrivehosting.com for delivery to yahoo.com.

Reason: Mail Server for yahoo.com could not be contacted at this time. MailEnable will keep trying to deliver this message and will notify you of any progress.


Message headers follow:

Received: from ([127.0.0.1]) with MailEnable ESMTP; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 00:00:47 -0800
Message-ID: <001301c3e3e2$8178d680$6f69ead1@server.bigdrivehosting.com>
From: "Sales" <info@bigdrivehosting.com>
To: <kckclass@yahoo.com>
Subject: test from outlook
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 00:00:46 -0800
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0010_01C3E39F.7344CDA0"
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106

so... um why can't mail enable send messages to yahoo?


I'd like to keep this little she-bang program. She installs (documentation could be improved but is better than most) and she goes pop and for free, the std edition appears generous enough in features to get started and the price for upgrading isn't too bad but wha wha wha do I do now to test the smtp features and get them working. I tried http://zoneedit.com/pop3.html and used both pop and smtp tests and they worked but it doesn't want to send messages out.


Any ideas out there?
kckclass

my_forum_id
Posts: 42
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2003 5:47 pm

Post by my_forum_id » Mon Jan 26, 2004 10:11 am

There are people here but it's not a busy forum.

For your problem first check out the knowledgebase on the mailenable site as most common problems are covered there.

Also what errors do you see reported on the internal diagnostics screens in mailenable itself ?

It does sound like you have a DNS problem if your smtp server can't find yahoo.

sunpost
Posts: 438
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 3:04 pm

Post by sunpost » Mon Jan 26, 2004 10:16 am

it looks like server.bigdrivehosting.com is not set up in the DNS properly.

server.bigdrivehosting.com IN CNAME server.bigdrivehosting.com

i think it should be pointing to a host record, rather than itself.

good luck :!:

MDColson
Posts: 109
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2003 8:29 pm

Post by MDColson » Mon Jan 26, 2004 1:27 pm

I'd be glad to help... Please send me some information, for example - OS, Mailenable Version and the domain names that you will be hosting and lastly your ISP.

MDColson

MDColson
Posts: 109
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2003 8:29 pm

Post by MDColson » Mon Jan 26, 2004 1:36 pm

I just saw your other post showing the domain name. This is what your DNS entires look like...

eduhosting.org MX preference = 0, mail exchanger = smtp.secureserver.net
eduhosting.org MX preference = 20, mail exchanger = mailstore1.secureserver.net

This looks to me like you got the domain at godaddy and have some sort of domain forwarding. Because when I go to eduhosting.org it just forwards me on to bigdrivehosting. You need to set up DNS. I would either contact bigdrivehosting and see if they are going to provide DNS for you OR get some free dns. I suggest reading this tutorial it will help you set up DNS with zoneedit if you end up needing it.
http://www.dslwebserver.com/main/fr_ind ... ation.html

BUT since bigdrivehosting is hosting, I would talk to them - they should be doing the DNS for you.

MDColson

kckclass
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2004 3:48 am
Location: San Francisco

ok confysuib about domains clarified...

Post by kckclass » Mon Jan 26, 2004 4:33 pm

Thank you for your help. I do appreciate it and I think mail enable has a pretty clean interface so I really want this to work. Here is a bit of info:


Answering some questions above:

Q: OS -A: 2000,

Q: Mailenable Version - A: whatever we picked up three days ago from their site... where do I check?

Q: and the domain names that you will be hosting - A: bigdrivehosting.com (testing ground for students - below) and eduhosting.org (production ground for teachers as we figure this out) and lastly your

Q: ISP - A: coastside.net aka coastwave.net who will probably cut us off when they find we are testing a web server but we are taking the pony show elsewhere later this week.

Q: Also what errors do you see reported on the internal diagnostics screens in mailenable itself ?

A:

DNS Resolution Test
The following table outlines the results of a DNS Resolution test. In this test, the server attempts to lookup www.mailenable.com.
It also attempts to locate MX Records for your local/home SMTP domain. Test Detail Test Data Test Response Status
Network DNS Test Resolve www.mailenable.com using Network Adapter IP Settings. Success Pass

Local Mail Domain Resolution Test (server.bigdrivehosting.com) Error: Could not resolve your Local Domain Name in DNS. You should change the local domain name to a domain name that is registered in DNS. This setting is found in the MMC under the properties of the SMTP Connector Error: Could not resolve DNS. (1460) Fail
The DNS settings used by the SMTP Connector have caused tests to 'Fail'. Some diagnostic tests have been skipped. Please review your configuration and re-run this utility.



1. I am beta testing everything to my ip (home) PC until this is working.

2. bigdrivehosting and eduhosting are all on the same box for the moment: we own both. eduhosting will be for teachers, bigdrivehosting will be for our students to 'work on'; we've been doing free PC labs for kids since 1983.

3. both are registered with godaddy - in different accouns. a student set up eduhosting and only 5 minutes ago did I set the A record, CNAME and MX0 (he gave me his password) so that will take a day or so to propogate.

4. meanwhile, I have been testing with bigdrivehosting.com which is working. while the site is flat (a cripple of a single page or two), that is the 'main/default' site for my ip addy... 209.234.105.111

5. a suggestion was made above that bigdrive should resolve the DNS. Should I download and use something like bind for that (out of scope for this forum)

6. I am testing mailenable with bigdrivehosting and figure once eduhosting points here I can test that. btw, mydomain.com bites for DNS A record propogation and support... we found that out this weekend.

7. so, focusing on bigdrivehosting, while testing with bigdrivehosting we were able to get outlook express to pop the server and pull mail but it wouldn't smtp send to my email addy, kckclass@yahoo.com saying yahoo.com was down. kinda funny I thought...


here is the email message:


MailEnable: Message delivery has been delayed.

Message is waiting at mail.bigdrivehosting.com for delivery to yahoo.com.

Reason: Mail Server for yahoo.com could not be contacted at this time. MailEnable will keep trying to deliver this message and will notify you of any progress.


Message headers follow:

Received: from ([127.0.0.1]) with MailEnable ESMTP; Mon, 26 Jan 2004 00:00:47 -0800
Message-ID: <001301c3e3e2$8178d680$6f69ead1@server.bigdrivehosting.com>
From: "Sales" <info@bigdrivehosting.com>
To: <kckclass@yahoo.com>
Subject: test from outlook
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 00:00:46 -0800
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0010_01C3E39F.7344CDA0"
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106


8. I am pretty sure this is all related to me being an idiot about setting up DNS zone records. Ya can't teach whatcha can't do, eh? So here is what I set up for bigdrivehosting


a) apache virtual host records...

<VirtualHost _default_:*>
ServerName bigdrivehosting.com
ServerAlias *.bigdrivehosting.com
ServerAlias mail mail.bigdrivehosting.com
ServerAlias mail smtp.bigdrivehosting.com
DocumentRoot c:/hosting/bigdrivehosting.com/web
DirectoryIndex index.html index.htm index.shtml index.html.var
Options Includes MultiViews -Indexes IncludesNoExec FollowSymLinks
<Directory "c:/hosting/bigdrivehosting.com/web">
<Limit GET POST OPTIONS PROPFIND>
Order allow,deny
Allow from all
</Limit>
<LimitExcept GET POST OPTIONS PROPFIND>
Order deny,allow
Deny from all
</LimitExcept>
</Directory>
<Directory "c:/hosting/bigdrivehosting.com/web/userscripts">
Options MultiViews -Indexes FollowSymLinks +ExecCGI
<Limit GET POST OPTIONS>
Order allow,deny
Allow from all
</Limit>
<LimitExcept GET POST OPTIONS PROPFIND>
Order deny,allow
Deny from all
</LimitExcept>
</Directory>
<Directory "c:/hosting/bigdrivehosting.com/web/data">
Options +MultiViews -Indexes +FollowSymLinks +IncludesNoExec
<Limit GET POST OPTIONS PROPFIND>
Order allow,deny
Allow from all
</Limit>
<LimitExcept GET POST OPTIONS>
Order deny,allow
Deny from all
</LimitExcept>
</Directory>
ScriptAlias /cgi-bin/ /hosting/bigdrivehosting.com/web/userscripts
AddType application/x-httpd-php .php
</VirtualHost>

<VirtualHost *>
ServerName bigdrivehosting.com
ServerAlias *.bigdrivehosting.com
ServerAlias mail mail.bigdrivehosting.com
ServerAlias mail smtp.bigdrivehosting.com
DocumentRoot c:/hosting/bigdrivehosting.com/web
DirectoryIndex index.html index.htm index.shtml index.html.var
Options Includes MultiViews -Indexes IncludesNoExec FollowSymLinks
<Directory "c:/hosting/bigdrivehosting.com/web">
<Limit GET POST OPTIONS PROPFIND>
Order allow,deny
Allow from all
</Limit>
<LimitExcept GET POST OPTIONS PROPFIND>
Order deny,allow
Deny from all
</LimitExcept>
</Directory>
<Directory "c:/hosting/bigdrivehosting.com/web/userscripts">
Options MultiViews -Indexes FollowSymLinks +ExecCGI
<Limit GET POST OPTIONS>
Order allow,deny
Allow from all
</Limit>
<LimitExcept GET POST OPTIONS PROPFIND>
Order deny,allow
Deny from all
</LimitExcept>
</Directory>
<Directory "c:/hosting/bigdrivehosting.com/web/data">
Options +MultiViews -Indexes +FollowSymLinks +IncludesNoExec
<Limit GET POST OPTIONS PROPFIND>
Order allow,deny
Allow from all
</Limit>
<LimitExcept GET POST OPTIONS>
Order deny,allow
Deny from all
</LimitExcept>
</Directory>
ScriptAlias /cgi-bin/ /hosting/bigdrivehosting.com/web/userscripts
AddType application/x-httpd-php .php
</VirtualHost>

<VirtualHost *>
ServerName www.eduhosting.org
ServerAlias server *.eduhosting.org
ServerAlias mail mail.eduhosting.org
ServerAlias mail smtp.eduhosting.org
DocumentRoot c:/hosting/eduhosting.org/web
DirectoryIndex index.html index.htm index.shtml index.html.var
Options Includes MultiViews -Indexes IncludesNoExec FollowSymLinks
<Directory "c:/hosting/eduhosting.org/web">
<Limit GET POST OPTIONS PROPFIND>
Order allow,deny
Allow from all
</Limit>
<LimitExcept GET POST OPTIONS PROPFIND>
Order deny,allow
Deny from all
</LimitExcept>
</Directory>
<Directory "c:/hosting/eduhosting.org/web/userscripts">
Options MultiViews -Indexes FollowSymLinks +ExecCGI
<Limit GET POST OPTIONS>
Order allow,deny
Allow from all
</Limit>
<LimitExcept GET POST OPTIONS PROPFIND>
Order deny,allow
Deny from all
</LimitExcept>
</Directory>
<Directory "c:/hosting/eduhosting.org/web/data">
Options +MultiViews -Indexes +FollowSymLinks +IncludesNoExec
<Limit GET POST OPTIONS PROPFIND>
Order allow,deny
Allow from all
</Limit>
<LimitExcept GET POST OPTIONS>
Order deny,allow
Deny from all
</LimitExcept>
</Directory>
ScriptAlias /cgi-bin/ /hosting/eduhosting.org/web/userscripts
AddType application/x-httpd-php .php
</VirtualHost>

b) here is the DNS record stuff


@ - A - 209.234.105.111

mail - CNAME - server.bigdrivehosting.com
server - CNAME - server.bigdrivehosting.com
smtp - CNAME - server.bigdrivehosting.com
www - CNAME - @

@ - MX0 - server.bigdrivehosting.com


I checked with 'network identification' using mailenable instructions( let me check again) and that is

computer name - server


Member of:

workgroup

mail

I tried to set it to member of DOMAIN bigdrivehosting.com but got an MicroSoft error message

The following error occured validating the name 'bigdrivehosting.com' The condition may be caused by a DNS lookup problem. For information and troubleshooting visit the microsoft website http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=5171 The specified domain either does not exist or could not be contacted...

So, I left it at workgroup MAIL.

When I click MORE I get the Primary DNS Suffix for this computer as set to bigdrivehosting.com so the full computer name is server.bigdrivehosting.com which matches all DNS entries we have set up at all places...


I know this is a lot of info. Apparently setting up a web server and mail server is quite a task, eh?


Thank you for your help.
kckclass

MDColson
Posts: 109
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2003 8:29 pm

Post by MDColson » Mon Jan 26, 2004 4:45 pm

You need to either make another A record for server.bigdrivehosting.com or make server.bigdrivehosting.com a cname pointing to bigdrigehosting.com. Right now it doesn't point to anything! The name of the windows server makes NO difference, the internet is ONLY concerned with the DNS name of a machine. So disregard all of that.

You could also just change your MX record from server.bigdrivehosting.com to bigdrivehosting.com (which already points to your IP).

When you set up mailenable, it asked you for DNS servers. HERE you must put the information from your ISP. To get this, open up a command promopt (start>run>cmd) and type in ipconfig /all and it will show DNS info. This DNS and the DNS managing your webaddress are different (although ultimately the same). The DNS above is going to be handled through godaddy, this one is dont by your isp.

Keep in mind when you change DNS info in godaddy it's going to take 24-48 hours to propigate through the internet.

Mark

MDColson
Posts: 109
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2003 8:29 pm

Post by MDColson » Mon Jan 26, 2004 4:51 pm

By the way, when i connected to bigdrivehosting.com and NOT server.bigdrivehosting.com on port 25. Mailenable answered as it is supposed to..

"220 mail.bigdrivehosting.com ESMTP MailEnable Service, Version: 1.71-- ready at 01/26/04 09:01:29"

scratch part of what i said before. MX records must be A records. So don't just turn server.bigdrivehosting.com into a cname record. Turn it into an A record, then put into your MX "server.bigdrivehosting.com". Also all of your mail.... and smtp.... need to be correctly created.

A records are the only thing that map a name to an IP address. To make mail.domain.com be your mx record, you MUST also have an A record called mail.domain.com ... Just adding something to MX doesn't actually map anything - it just tells servers where to route mail.

If you want, you can email me - and give me a temporary password and I can quickly do your DNS setup. That way you'll be able to see what I mean... mark@mdcolson.com

Mark

kckclass
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2004 3:48 am
Location: San Francisco

my apology both to mail enable and this forum

Post by kckclass » Mon Jan 26, 2004 5:58 pm

first, with 25 years writing application software for banks, hmos, nuke plants and NASA I can't count the times I have said 'This darn thing should work. It must be a fault with the compiler.' and then catch myself and remember that 999 out of 1000 times it isn't. It is my lack of knowledge that is at fault.


And so here I go spewing 'should I dump mail enable' which, considering they offer a working free mail server for MS platforms was rude, knee jerk and just uh, rude. Why would I think that people would reply to my posts made in the middle of the night? Most of you folks have day jobs and I feel really dumb for knocking either this program or the forum for lack of population or replies. I visit a lot of web hosting forums these days; some want me to moderate because of intense ap dev history, but let's see if I can cut my way through mail enable... I'd love to recommend it and put a fat link on the front page of bigdrivehosting when we get this working: plus students from around the world will be exposed to it so hopefully they'll forgive my brash initial response and whining...

In the meantime, let me read your posts(above) and hack my way through the A records. I thought that only ONE A record should be created but let me read that stuff carefully and get this right.

Also, I downloaded BIND and wondered if I should run that on this box too (getting kinda full here with hosting utils) and was reading their pdf but for the moment, let me focus on this mail enable issue and see if I can apply your generous instructions...


...thank you.


UPDATE: Ok, I set a new A record


zone record name - server

zone record type - A

Zone record value - 209.234.105.111

I tried to make record name server.bigdrivehosting.com but it wouldn't take that - 25 character limit.

let me read more of your instructions and see what to do next... (or what I can screw up next)


I think a manual at mail enable with the following table would be good. Is there one?


@ - A - your ip

server - A - your IP

mail - A - your IP (is this required?)

smtp - A - your IP

mail - CNAME - server.domain.com

server - CNAME - server.domain.com

smtp - CNAME - server.domain.com

@ - MX0 - server.domain.com

etc. and now I know I look really dumb because I am sure some of these are gross mistakes...


UPDATE:

Ok, I made an MX record

@ - MX10 - mail.bigdrivehosting.com

so now my total DNS zone file looks like this:

@ - A - 209.234.105.111
server - A - 209.234.105.111
www - CNAME - server.bigdrivehosting.com
mail - CNAME - server.bigdrivehosting.com
server - CNAME - server.bigdrivehosting.com
smtp - CNAME - server.bigdrivehosting.com
@ - MX0 - server.bigdrivehosting.com
@ - MX10 - mail.bigdrivehosting.com

I kinda feel like I am just '******* sink'-ing this record without the knowledge of what the heck I am doing and that is uh, dangerous and kind of stupid but onward through the fog...
kckclass

kckclass
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2004 3:48 am
Location: San Francisco

now I am really confused...

Post by kckclass » Mon Jan 26, 2004 10:14 pm

I reduced/slashed entries from this so that all I have is


@ - A - 209.234.105.111

mail - CNAME - bigdrivehosting.com

server - CNAME - bigdrivehosting.com

www - CNAME - bigdrivehosting.com

@ - MX0 - bigdrivehosting.com


and within 20 minutes all sites stopped working and nothing is happening now.... a step backwards I think.

BUT, here is what may have happened... I THINK the last DNS change (above-prior post) finally kicked in and crashed everything because when I do a tracert bigdrivehosting.com I get a server.server.bigdrivehosting.com in the message (two server dots?) and so I am going to let everything stabalize for a day (why this has taken three weeks) before making any other changes.
kckclass

sunpost
Posts: 438
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 3:04 pm

Post by sunpost » Mon Jan 26, 2004 10:36 pm

your TTL is set to 1 hour so those records should be refreshed after that times out.

from what i can see, the DNS looks correct...
http://centralops.net/co/DomainDossier. ... 19&go.y=12

AlertServ
Posts: 30
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2003 1:36 am
Contact:

Post by AlertServ » Sun Feb 01, 2004 10:56 pm

One, check you DNS records at http://www.dnsreports.com as that can many times help you with issues.

If you are still stuck, send me an e-mail to Jim[at]AlertServ.com and mention your issue. I work full-time in K-12 Support and what seems like full-time for my server management company and can give you a free hand.
Alert Serv | Managed Windows Servers, Incident Support
Including Support for Mail Enable & Helm - http://www.AlertServ.com
------------------------------------------------------
Authorized Helm Reseller

Guest

Post by Guest » Mon Feb 02, 2004 4:21 am

WOW NICE FOLKS AT THIS SITE... Thanks..

Ok, a week later I sure learned a lot about DNS, Apache and getting Perl to work... We have been down for a month but I finally got everything going except SMTP send. I still have to do a BUNCH of URL flipping so my apache doesn't have so many errors when loading images and links because the 'drive structure' is a bit different now that we are hosting our own stuff, but there is hope.


The only PROBLEM so far is the reverse DNS issue. I heard ONE PERSON SAY if I run BIND I can get that problem solved because our ISP won't do it and I can't get our mail server 100% working without it since a lot of folks won't accept our mail.


So, I downloaded BIND and it installs easily enough (I think it installed?) but I couldn't find documentation on getting it to provide reverse DNS and our SMTP send still doesn't work and am not sure how to configure it.


So, two questions:

1. Will running BIND magically give me reverse DNS? A lot of the admins I have heard from say NO and that is sad. But I remember reading someone who said YES, so there is hope.


2. Without reverse DNS, does that mean I have to set up a website that never sends mail to people? That isn't really practical, so I guess my next alternative is to port everything through another service, like hotpop or something that is free (we can afford free), unless they get upset with a heavy volume and dump us.


Any ideas out there? Does SBC/YAHOO DSL provide reverse DNS when you order static IP addys?


Thanks gang...

Guest

Post by Guest » Mon Feb 02, 2004 4:23 am

p.s. altserv... yes, DNS report was great and Mark sort of taught me to use it (thanks Mark) or I should say taught me and I sort of learned and it was great for debugging A and MX record configs.

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